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Author Topic: Help - rough start & run until warm?  (Read 3005 times)
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dmarkham
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« on: May 15, 2010, 11:54:10 PM »

Hi All

I'd be grateful for any advice. I had a head change on 1995 Lucida, some twelve months ago and it has run fine until recently. But recently I noticed that it didn't start up quite so instantly as normal and ran ... I'd describe as 'lumpy' or if it was petrol I'd say it seems like it is mis- firing (but as diesel clearly not the case!). But then after a little time of warming up it seemed to run okay,  (with me on edge of seat hoping and praying that this wasn't symptom of head gasket going again).  Since getting back home symptoms have got a bit more obvious although it is most noticeable when started from cold first thing in the morning. Lots of blue smoke from exhaust. If it has already run that day then starting and running later will be easier. So I took it to a local garage. They cured a slight diesel leak and clean 'ERG' (or similar?) valve, but no better and didn't know what else to suggest other than a diesel expert.

I have since put new fuel filter on and run injector cleaner through it (in hope rather than expectation that it will be cured). It does seem to run better when warm and when warm idling there was no evidence of any blue exhaust gasses, infact could not see any exhaust gases at all - which I took as a good sign. Tomorrow morning I'll find out if it has made a difference to the starting and running from cold problem.

If anyone has experience of similar problems or ideas as to what the problem might be then I'd be grateful for suggestions.

Cheers

Dom
   
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ADarbon
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« Reply #1 on: May 16, 2010, 11:06:18 AM »

after my problems i would say check the valve clearance. Where did you get the head from
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Tony the family guy

dmarkham
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« Reply #2 on: May 16, 2010, 12:52:28 PM »

Hi

The head was fitted at a garage where I bought the Lucida from with a Toyota replacement head, but I'm a bit cautious to take it back to them as I suspect the head went in the first place by them not putting enough antifreeze in the coolant system. (insisted on Toyota red since rebuild!).

This morning it ran with a lot less smoke first thing, which was a big improvement since before fitting a new fuel filter. It also runs slightly better, but is still not back to normal and still a bit more delay on start than normal.

What was the problem with valve clearances that you mentioned?

Cheers for suggestions

Dom
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ADarbon
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« Reply #3 on: May 16, 2010, 06:06:57 PM »

I had no clearence on my valves which was causing starting problems from cold. I have been told this can occur on copy heads in the first six months. I wouldnt worry about the antifreeze side of things I dont think you could have caused any problems in six months.
Do you really know they used a genuine head.
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Tony the family guy

dmarkham
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« Reply #4 on: May 18, 2010, 12:31:20 AM »

Well I'm only going on what they told me about the replacement head, but I think they reused valves from the old head, so it might well be a problem to look at.

As for the antifreeze scenario, that was probably why the head went in the first place, some fifteen months ago in a really cold spell - several days of minus six to eight degrees and then taking a run to work the heaters never got hot, but then as it was so cold outside I didn't think too much of it, especially as the bus wasn't up to normal running temperature. However, when it did some 3 miles in to my journey there was a flash of the engine warning light followed by a loud bang (very loud) as a hose was blown off and steam etc. the engine coolant that came out then formed a nice pile of freezing coolant on the road - not running away as liquid - which made me suspect frozen system together with no heater output and also subsequently finding the new radiator split.

So I'm hoping this current problem is less severe.

Dom
   
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ADarbon
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« Reply #5 on: May 18, 2010, 12:53:11 AM »

Yeah 50 50 antifreeze in the winter doesn't have too be Toyota red. I put commer red longlife in.
If they used the same valves theres a good chance the just transfered the buckets and shims which could cause you to have valve Clarence problems.
should be 0.20 - 0.30 on the inlet and 0.25 - 0.35 on the exhaust. It is easy enough to check your self if you feel up to it and i would be quite happy to guide you.
the other thing to check is all the fuel lines connections on you bleed back pipe, Injector pipes. look out for fuel leaking. if there is a little hole air could get in over night would cause a problem with starting.
There is also a filter in the fuel tank, you might want too take a look at that. There is a tutorial for it
I'll keep my thinking cap on, I check a lot of stuff when i had my starting problem, Funny thing was valve clearance was the first thing i was told but the last thing i checked.
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Tony the family guy

propnut
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« Reply #6 on: May 21, 2010, 06:58:06 PM »

Blue smoke is oil. A couple of things can cause this.

1. Turbo bearing seal leaking.
2. Valve stem seals gone
3. Piston rings or even a piston gone/worn bore.

As you say it gets better when warm I would start with the valve stem seals and then move on to doing a compression check on all cylinders.
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dmarkham
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« Reply #7 on: May 23, 2010, 12:40:54 AM »

Thanks for suggestions, I'll post the outcome when there is one. I'm just glad no one has mentioned head gasgets as a cause. Thanks for the offer of guiding me though checking valve clearances. It's a bit more than I normaly do with a car, but part of me would have enjoyed the challenge.

Dom
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dmarkham
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« Reply #8 on: May 26, 2010, 09:18:49 PM »

Hi, again

Well the garage checked heating plugs and found to be okay and suggested replacing injectors as the next thing to try, followed by diesel pump if that didn't do the trick. I'm sure all reasonable suggestions, but expensive if the problem isn't solved by these changes. So upshot is I have the bus back - short of �60 and as yet not much nearer to a solution, but can rule out heater plugs.

Valve clearances have been suggested here and I think I may have to explore the inner workings of the bus a bit more. So far I've learnt to change filters and refit brakes and discs, but haven't had the floor pan up to venture further. Suggestions on how to go about checking valves would be appreciated, anyone know if there is a tutorial or thread on this already, or a manual that would show similar procedure?

Cheers

Dom
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ADarbon
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« Reply #9 on: May 26, 2010, 11:39:16 PM »

I'm on the verge of writing a tutoral on this done one for the engine bay opening.
in short open engine bay remove rocker cover and put feeler gauge between the valve and the cam lobe when its pointing up (the egg shaped bit) should be 0.20 -0.30 for intake and 0.25 - 0.35 for the exhaust. Mainly photos for it i need to complete the write up. need to get my new shims and put them in was going to take them then.
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Tony the family guy

dmarkham
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« Reply #10 on: May 29, 2010, 11:24:00 PM »

Thanks, all info is greatly appreciated.

I'm going to venture in to new areas and have a go at checking the valve clearances as suggested.

  -  So first get access to engine by taking out seats and expose engine.
 
 -  Second take off rocker cover. Third check clearances, but I need to get      cam lobes pointing up. Can you give me any clues as to how to do this? I presume there must be a way of turning the engine over to do this.

  -  Then check the distances between valve and lobe which you helpfully listed.

Thanks for suggestions

Dom
   
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ADarbon
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« Reply #11 on: May 30, 2010, 12:00:30 AM »

Im going to put my write up on to the tips and tutorals for you but its not quite finished but hopefully you should make it out from there
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Tony the family guy

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« Reply #12 on: May 30, 2010, 12:06:05 AM »

Valve clearance tutorial
Heres the link
« Last Edit: July 11, 2010, 07:24:34 PM by ADarbon » Logged

Tony the family guy

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« Reply #13 on: May 30, 2010, 10:07:21 PM »

I would have to agree with checking the valve clearances first. It's simple to check and confirm the problem.
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dmarkham
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« Reply #14 on: June 09, 2010, 01:11:38 AM »

Thanks for responses, I've finally had some time to start taking seats out and do the necessary to expose the engine. Now to figure out how to check valve clearances. Am I right to assume the engine is in effect almost laying over sideways with the part that needs to be removed to check clearances being effectively the part nearest to the handbrake. If so then there are a couple of items attached that look like they need to come off first before the cover can be removed. Am I on the right lines on this one? Advise from here on would be welcome. I'm taking photos as I go and may put on the site for information for others doing these things for the first time.

I'll attach photo showing in blue the part that I presume has to come off to check clearances and the parts circeld in red are the ones that look like they need to be removed.

Cheers all, I'll keep posting as to how this one goes and will have a look through the link that was suggested.
Dom
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