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Author Topic: Help - rough start & run until warm?  (Read 3004 times)
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rune
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« Reply #30 on: June 12, 2010, 05:06:56 PM »

When water is churned up in oil it is called emulsified. Basically the oil and water looks like mucky whitish gloop. One of the signs of the head gasket gone (or head cracked) - although I really hope its not.

As an aside - margarine is emulsified vegetable oil and water. I believe it was invented for during the napoleonic campaigns to provide an alternative to butter which went off
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dmarkham
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« Reply #31 on: June 12, 2010, 06:54:55 PM »

Thanks for explanation on emulsified oil and the Napoleonic reference, which lightens the mood when following talk of cracked heads!

As for my crank - the whitish colour doesn't wipe off and it doesn't seem to be something that chips off, as experimenting with a small screw driver nothing chipped off at all, it just left a slight mark if the screw driver was run over it.

So I'm not sure if this is likely to be a result of emulsified oil.
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dmarkham
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« Reply #32 on: June 12, 2010, 09:05:59 PM »

Well I checked valve clearances. I used standard feeler gauges ( I still had from setting points in VW Beetles - a long time ago). I turned engine over using a socket bar on the bolts on the SADS and each time one of the cam lobes (if that is right terminology) pointed directly away from the valve I measured the gap by trying to slide the feeler gauge in carefully.

Results - from the left when looking at engine from driver's door the first valve clearance was at least .3, but the next didn't have even .05 clearance. Then the next pair of valves the clearance was at least .3 on the one on the left and not even .05 on the one on the right. On the next pair the left hand pone had clearance of at least .3, and the on eon the right had clearance of .15. On the last pair of valves the one nearest the front of the bus the clearance was not even .05 on either valve. Th elater also happens to be where the cam had the slightly odd white colouring on it. (the edge of the valve itself actually looks okay. I'll attach photos below.

I guess now I have to figure out how to actually try and reset clearances. But good news in a way if it means I do not have cracked head etc.

Any ideas why valve clearances should be so far out now after head replaced some 18months ago? Do these generally change over time or are they things that wear or get set wrong in first place. I suppose I'm wondering if valve clearance problems indicate any other problems with valves.

Anyway I'm sort of glad that there is something wrong with clearances? 

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rune
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« Reply #33 on: June 12, 2010, 09:47:01 PM »

Hi, Im not sure about the estimas, but on my bikes you needed to turn the engine until one valve was fully open and then measure the gap on another, specific, valve. You couldnt just stick the feelers in when a lobe was pointing upwards.The tappets would clatter like hell if done differently.

Tony Darbon is the fella to let you know the correct method to check/set the valve clearances.

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ADarbon
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« Reply #34 on: June 12, 2010, 11:54:28 PM »

its in the tutoral i have written yes you checked the clearance right. questions on why first if the valve where a straight swap from your old engine they could have just not been right in the first place. or the buckets the shims sit in could be cheep and warps slightly since fitted. for now just replacing the shims is fine you need to remove each shim (the shiny disc to the top of the valve seated in the bucket) measure the thickness an accurate micrometer needed, then take away the amount of clearance needed from the thickness of the shim that give you the thickness of shim you need. i have a chart that gives the size numbers i post it up just got too find my scanner. if you get the sizes before that pot the measurements up and I'll tell you the size numbers also check the shims i got too see if any are good too you. Toyota sell them about �6.50 a shim. look at my write up and pm me for any more help.
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dmarkham
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« Reply #35 on: June 13, 2010, 09:47:13 AM »

Thanks for responses all very appreciated. I feel like I'm not doing too badly, just doing everything for the first time, without knowing quite what all the correct names are for things is a bit daunting. So I just need to figure out getting shims out and replace with correct sizes. Can I just check that when you say 'shims and buckets' that I'm looking at the right things. I'll indicate what I think they are in the attached photo. The only bit I can see that would correspond are indicated by arrow - is the red one pointing to the shim? and is the blue the bucket?  Sorry for my ignorance on this, but I guess I'd better expose it completely at this stage!

Thanks
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ADarbon
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« Reply #36 on: June 13, 2010, 02:32:28 PM »

yes spot on, there is a tool set too get them out which consist of a plier that goes around the cam shaft and pushes the valve down a locking tool that wedges between the edge of the bucket and the cam shaft to hold it down you remove the pliers and use a screw driver and magnetic finger tool too remove the shim. with out the tool set you can use a strong flat screwdriver with electrical tape on the tip so it dont scratch, wedge it between the valve and cam lob push the valve down, than you need an alan key thats had the end shorted too lock the valve down
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dmarkham
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« Reply #37 on: June 15, 2010, 06:26:21 PM »

Thanks for confirmation that I'm still on the right track.

Do you have any idea as to where I can get hold of the valve tool set? Are these tool sets specific to the Estima or particular cars/models? I'll have a browse on ebay and see what comes up. 
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ADarbon
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« Reply #38 on: June 15, 2010, 08:37:55 PM »

snap on is your best be I do have a thred some where I have posted a picture of them. hopefully i will do mine on thursday and could lend you mine not promising because me and my sceduals dont often work out.
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Tony the family guy

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« Reply #39 on: June 15, 2010, 08:42:16 PM »

Valve clearence tools
check that thread out
« Last Edit: July 11, 2010, 07:25:58 PM by ADarbon » Logged

Tony the family guy

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« Reply #40 on: June 16, 2010, 09:37:08 AM »

Thanks, I'll check the thread out
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« Reply #41 on: June 29, 2010, 11:09:24 PM »

Quick update on valve clearances. I went in to Toyota to find out about tools for removing shims, but was told side tracked by parts department telling me that the problems wouldn't be caused by valve clearance and that I wouldn't need to ever order smaller shims. The cost of the tool set was something around �120. So I left a little confused and ordered the devise that holds the valve down (sort of 's' shape tool) as that could be bought separately for �12 or so. On a positive note the guy at Toyota did kindly photocopy the section from the manual they use for measuring the valve clearance and methods of adjusting.

I went back fearing that I had done things wrong to double, triple check all valve clearances, but the results were the same so I spoke with my more informed brother, and he reckons it is not the shims that wear, but the fact that the valves gradually wear into the valve seats that causes the loss of gap betwen shim and cam lobe - hence need for thinner shims to maintain gap. So then st back on original course of removing shims. 

Using a large screw driver with plastic around I forced the valve down and propped the 's' tool in between the cam shaft and the bucket to hold bucket down so that shim could be removed. However it took quite a lot of fiddling and persistence to pop the shim out using a small screw driver and magnetic pickup tool as advised. Today I ordered a new shim from Toyota, for cost of �8 or so and they  aid it was the same as used in the Picnic. So Thursday I'll be fitting it back in and then if I manage to do all that successfully, I'll replace all the inlet shims before reassembling and hoping the starting problems are solved.

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ADarbon
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« Reply #42 on: June 29, 2010, 11:35:23 PM »

Hopefully it will solve the problem. I know it will solve my starting problem when i finally get the new shims
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Tony the family guy

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« Reply #43 on: July 01, 2010, 08:15:39 AM »

Hi there
   Can you please tell me if adjusting your valve shims cured your running problem as have the same problem with mine and at a loss? Thanks  Embarrassed
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« Reply #44 on: July 01, 2010, 11:32:05 PM »

Mine is put some of my new shims in today still got to get a couple more.
Dom good idea getting the one shim use it in each to get a measurment for them all thats what i did today will get the right sizes now
« Last Edit: July 11, 2010, 06:47:31 PM by ADarbon » Logged

Tony the family guy

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